Accessibility Navigation:

Interview with Gladys Worthy

Worthy, Gladys
Grundy, Pamela
Date of Interview: 
basketball; high school sports; girl's basketball; gender and sports; Highland Community, Gastonia, NC; professional basketball; segregation; prayer in schools; African Americans and sports; parenting; school clubs and organizations; education.
A former basketball player for Gastonia's Highland High School during the 1948-1950 seasons, Gladys Worthy recalls her sports career. She reflects on the many advantages high school basketball afforded her, including the chance to travel, recognition from her community, respect from classmates, and a bolstered self-esteem. In contrast to the positives, Worthy also discusses the limitations race and gender conventions placed upon her and her teammates. She reminisces about her role in a championship basketball game and discusses the strategy her team employed on the court. Worthy speaks more generally about parenting issues such as discipline. She briefly talks about her son James, who was a then-professional basketball player in the NBA, and the impact his fame had on the Gaston County community. Even though she and her family have a long-time involvement with sports, Worthy stresses education as paramount.
Interview Setting: 
Gastonia, North Carolina
Levine Museum of the New South, Basketball Series
Interview Audio: 
PG (Pamela Grundy): Yeah, OK. It's going just fine.
GW (Gladys Worthy): OK.
PG: So I'll just say this is Pamela Grundy and I'm here in Gastonia, North Carolina interviewing Mrs. Gladys Worthy, and it is the 6th of May 1993. So you were just going to start by telling me when you first played.
GW: Yeah, I started playing in, in junior high, which was ninth grade. Didn't have too much of it in eighth grade. And when I started playing I was, I was afraid and awkward,
PG: Uh-huh.
GW: and they would tell me, "You're, you're awkward." And I would, I wanted to give it up, but I kept on because I love basketball. The three sports that I do love is basketball, football, ice-hockey. [Pause] Roller derby. I like rough things I don't like--. I like contact sports not so much basket--, you know, just the same sport.
PG: Um-hum.
GW: But when I started playing I was awkward as I said, and I tried to do things myself without getting into it with the coaching, without the coaching. Well, I'm tall. I can just take the ball and just do this, but it wasn't that way, so you had to learn. They had to teach you. But we played the half court.
PG: Um-hum.
GW: And I would have enjoyed it so much more if we had played the way the girls play now, but we played the half court. And you'd have three forwards on one side and three guards on the other side, and you'd have to be at the half-court line standing there cheering them on to try to get the ball back to you. There wasn't su--, there wasn't anything as, such thing as clock, forty-five seconds or whatever it is they have now, I don't know, but we didn't have a shot clock. You know, you just pass it around and shoot until you get a score. But we played and we loved, I loved it. I, I really did enjoy it because it was something I wanted to do.
PG: Um-hum.
GW: I wanted to play the center always. And being tall- I'm five eleven and a half, close to six feet, and I was the tallest thing on the team at that time. And that's the way it was. And we had a good coach. A Mr. Moses Blair was one of the coaches, and he was real good. He, he would always tell me to stand there and, "You can just throw it in," you know. "You don't have to do anything. Just punch it in." Well, I thought well now listen. What are all these guarding me? I'm going to have to move or do something, you know. So I enjoyed it, but it was rough then as it is now. But we didn't have buses to travel in; we traveled in cars. And I'll show you a picture where we won the championship statewide in 1949.
PG: Um-hum.
GW: And I graduated in '50, and I didn't get to play anymore. But my parents--. My mother never saw me play. My daddy never saw me play. My mother was sick at the time. My dad worked, so they never saw me play--.
PG: Really not at all?
GW: No sports. No, no, no basketball. But it's ironic because the, the very man that I married used to come and watch me play. And said, "Look at that tall, look at that tall girl. She's tall." Well, his sister played, and I did not know him at the time. And then after we married, he said "You know I used to watch you play ball." I said, "Well, I never recognized you [Laughter] being there." But he did, he'd watch me. He said, "That old girl, she just awkward. She can't play." [Laughter] But I don't care how--. It didn't bother me what they called me. They called me String bean. They called me Pole and everything. I wanted to play basketball. That didn't discourage me because I'm a fighter-type person anyway. I don't give up. And I really did enjoy it. But after we won the championship that year, the girls never did, they never did win anything else. And let's see, it was in what's now called North Carolina Central, used to be North Carolina.
PG: Right.
GW: And that's where we won the championship. I scored twenty--. I believe it was twenty-three points that night, and girls back then weren't scoring points like they do now. The only, the only thing I missed about that I wished I was playing now is girls can dunk.
PG: Uh-huh.
GW: And I believe I would have loved to dunk it just one time if I couldn't have done anymore, but I really enjoyed basketball. And I still enjoy basketball. If I could play now I guess I'd be out there. Sometimes I get out there and run up and down the driveway with my grandson and try to make moves on him, you know, and he's quicker than I am, but still I do it. But I, I just loved it. I really did and enjoyed playing.
PG: Well, let me ask you just a couple of questions from things that you said. You said, you know, you'd like to have been able to play with the way they play
GW: Yeah.
PG: now, running up and down the court. Did you think back then that you would like to do that, did you wish that you could play with the boys' rules?
GW: Yes I--. Yes, because the boys would, could do it at that time, but the girls could not. And I don't know why they wouldn't let us do it but--. It seemed like it was more--. The way I'm looking at it now it is more exciting. Because we just had to stand there and wait until the guards got it back over to the forwards to try to score. And that was--, it seemed like it was, it wasn't exciting. It just wasn't exciting and I would have loved to run up and down the court like they do now and play it.
PG: Did you ever talk to you friends about wishing you could do that or--?
GW: Yes, all of the, all of my friends that I talked to they played with me, some of them are still around here in Gastonia, some of them are away, but when I talk to them I say, "Don't you wish we could have played like they do now?" My husband's sister, I tell her that, too. She played and I--. She said, "Oh, there it would have been so much fun." But, you know, it was, it was enjoyable at the time but the way they do it now is more enjoyable to me I think. I just--. I would have had a thrill running up and down and going on the side and stop and shoot a three-pointer maybe. [Laughter]
PG: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
GW: That wasn't even in existence when, when we were playing, such a thing as a three-pointer. But it's so much, it's so much better the way they play it now than the way we did. It was a slowed down game, you know. If you, if you got to stand and wait, you know, that you just--. And they talking about bones and things getting stiff on you sitting around after you've played a while, I guess we would have. [Laughter] But it was enjoyable.
PG: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. ( ) You must have had the center jump then after--?
GW: Yes, you have the center. I was center, and I played the center and forward. And--.
PG: And how many times could you dribble?
GW: One time.
PG: ( )
GW: Then you got to turn that ball over. You pivot and if you dribbled, you got to pass it. You can't do like the girls run--. That's why I said it would be more fun if we could, [Laughter] could do it now.
PG: Could do that.
GW: Um-hum.
PG: And what kind of uniforms did you have?
GW: We had just like, like they have uniforms now.
PG: Uh-huh.
GW: I was, it was Highland High School. We were called the Ramlettes, the Ramlettes. We had the Rams and the Ramlettes. That's what we were called, and we'd always have to wear bows in our hair. You'd have to wear a white bow in your hair [Laughter] and white shoes and make everything just nice. And we had a manager. She lives in Connecticut now I believe it was, and she would always take care of all of our things and everything. Make sure you had everything there. But we traveled in cars. Oh me. Sometimes there would be six of us [Laughter] in the car.
PG: [Laughter] Oh my.
GW: Yeah. And we'd get home late at night, and your, your parents didn't have to come pick you up at the school. They would take you to the door at, at the time. No matter where you lived, they went to the door. You got out at the door and went in your house.
PG: And would it be like the coach's car or--?
GW: The coach's. Sometimes they would get volunteers to drive, but we, we didn't have access to bus.
PG: Um-hum. Now would you travel with the boys' team? Would you both travel to the same place and play?
GW: Yes, um-hum. We go to the same place and play, boys and girls, and we played. The girls would play first. And if it was at your school you played first, and then you would cheer the boys after they played. I had a brother played. He wasn't very good at basketball. He played football. And I have a sister, but she didn't play. She did, she was a kind of lazy one. [Laughter] She didn't want to play,
PG: (Didn't run in the family?)
GW: but I did. It was fun. It really was fun.
PG: Was there as much interest in the girls' basketball as there was in the boys'?
GW: No. [Sound indicating negative response]. Boys were dominant over the girls at that time in basketball. They would go watch the girls play, but mostly they wanted to see the boys play because they could go full court and there's more running in it. But just to sit and see the girls, you know, like that, but there wasn't. I wish there had been so you could've gotten a scholarship at that time. In the black schools, you know, it was so you didn't get-especially girls. I believe I would have gotten a scholarship in basketball because I was very good at basketball. I, I did go college on a nursing level but not, you know, as a, as a athlete, four year.
PG: Did you try to look for a scholarship? Did you do anything--?
GW: No, no, no. There weren't any offered. There weren't any offered. Because the coach would have seen, you know, would have, would have notified my parents if there had been, but there wasn't anything offered back then.
PG: Did any boys from you school ever get a scholarship to go?
GW: I--. Not in basketball. My brother got a scholarship in football to go to what is, is North Carolina Central, but not in basketball. There weren't any. But things have changed, you know, and I, I think it's good too because there are a lot of kids that can play basketball, but a lot of them cannot learn, you know, to go, to get, go to a college degree. But I think, here's, here's what I think, if that child has the ability to play ball, then he should be able to go to a college and be tutored if he had to be, but they won't do that. There's so many of them that have, you know, think they're going to come out of high school and go to college and play ball. But if the grades aren't good, you know, they don't have good grades, they don't go. That's just waste.
PG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
GW: It's just waste. But there, there should be some--. There should be something where they could go to a school. Now I know they have the junior colleges for them to go to and everything, but it's not like going, you know, where your grades are up and everything. It would be good if they, if they would consider something like that.
PG: Um-hum. Did--? Was there ever that trouble back then that some kids, I guess particularly boys, would be looking for a scholarship and then--?
GW: Well, back then no, but now, you know, now it's the same way because I know several boys that played when my son played. Very good basketball players, but then they didn't get a chance to go and prove themselves what they could do. If you didn't make it in high school and your grades weren't up or something, you didn't, you didn't go.
PG: Where do you think that that idea comes from? How do you think that, that these young men get this idea that they can just play basketball?
GW: Maybe from them, themselves. They know they have the ability to do it, but they need someone to help push them on. And if you're--. Well, you know, some coaches say, "Your grades aren't good. You, you might as well stop." This, this gets them down. This is what happens. And I, I've known this to happen. "You, you, you, you, you might as well stop because you not going to make it," you know, "in college. You can play in high school but that's as far as you can go." But give them a chance you know. I just don't believe in throwing someone aside because they don't have the ability to pass a test. I really don't think tests prove what your ability to do anything anyway. I really don't. I've always though that. They give you--. No, it's not an SAT test. What is it they give you in about the third or second grade?
PG: I don't know what they do here.
GW: IQ, IQ. And some children are frightened at that age. See I, I worked in the school system. You don't have to put this on there, but I--.
PG: Would you like me to stop? I'll stop
GW: Yeah.
PG: the tape if you'd like.
PG: No. Yeah, no I'm interested, you know, just telling me about, you know, what you tell the kids--.
GW: And then I tell them you got to listen to your parents at home and then your teacher because she is your parent, but she's at school. That's the way I figure it out. If, if I'm, if I'm going to let my child go to you, then my child should listen to you.
PG: Right.
GW: And I'm so--. I hate it so bad that they took popping out of the school. You can't pop them,
PG: No.
GW: because they'll tell them now, "You'd better not whip me."
PG: Right.
GW: I've been there and heard them, you know. "You better not whip me. I--. My mom will sue you." And that's wrong. You shouldn't--. How am I going to teach you if I can't discipline you?
PG: I guess--.
GW: Same as basketball players. How are they going to learn from the coach when, if they won't listen?
PG: Right.
GW: And there are so many of them. I've heard coaches say this. Valvano, the one that passed, he was my buddy. [Laughter] He was my buddy. I've had many conversations with him, and I've heard him say that they go to the summer camps, and they said, "No, I can't use him. I can't discipline him. He won't listen."
PG: Um-hum.
GW: Then he's just out.
PG: Yeah, that's right.
GW: He's just out.
PG: Was there much trouble with that when you were going to school again, back then?
GW: Well it was. There were children that didn't, you know, want to listen to what the coach said. And, and when I was going in high school, they would just say, "Well you go home. You just off the team. If you can't do what I--," you know. Say, "You just go home." And that, that was it. If your parents came and wanted to know, "Well, I can't discipline your child." But see it starts at home.
PG: Um-hum.
GW: You have to start at home, make that child do what you say do at home then you won't have any problem when it gets to school.
PG: Right.
GW: You won't have to whip that child. You won't have to call home and tell that mother, "John didn't do his work today, because he didn't want to do it." That's what they usually tell them if you ask them. "Why you don't want to do it?" "I don't want to."
PG: Yeah. Yeah. That's--.
GW: I've been there and I know, sweetheart. It's, it's not easy for teachers to teach them these days, it's not.
PG: Right. Right.
GW: And how are you going to do it when you--? It starts off with the church setting. You got to take that child to church when it's little. Let it grow up in that setting. You've got to teach that child what God, who God is and what he's all about because God made him. He's got to go back to God. I don't care how many children you have and you say, "These are mine!"
PG: Um-hum.
GW: They're not yours; they belong to God.
PG: Right.
GW: He just loaned them to you for a while. You have to try to bring them, you have to try to rear them that way, to respect themselves, and respect other people and respect the almighty. And you won't have problems out of them. They carry guns and knives. Well my ( )--.
PG: Yeah.
GW: If I was a teacher in school I'd be scared to, frightened to death.
PG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's scary ( )--.
GW: That I'm going to get shot if I give him a failing grade
PG: Yeah. Yeah. No it's a--.
GW: or stabbed or something.
PG: It's a real ( )--.
GW: You got to discipline that child, you--. And now you, you can't do anything in school to them anymore. That's why they're not learning. This is why they're carrying guns and knives to school. Ready to kill everyone. Then they took prayer out of the school. That's another thing. Oh, please put this on there.
PG: Oh yeah, yeah really. [Laughter] That's important?
GW: [Laughter] Prayer out of the school. We used to start the day off with prayer. When I was in first grade we had something called devotion and you would, you would pray. The teacher would pray. We prayed before our basketball games.
PG: Oh you did?
GW: We did, we had prayer. And I think, I know some of the pro-teams have prayer. I don't know about the college teams. But my husband has been in with the pro teams, and they pray. Sometimes A.C. Green with the Lakers, he prays. He's a ordained minister of some type, and he'll pray. And Terry Cummings is another one in the pros that pray. So you, you have some good people that are in the pros, and you have some terrible people in the pros.
PG: Right, right. Yeah.
GW: Some that don't give a hoot about themselves or anyone else.
PG: Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a ( )--.
GW: But it starts at home. You got to, you have to teach them at home.
PG: Well, let me ask you a little bit about the prayers that you would say before your games. What, what would they be like? What kind of prayers would you say?
GW: Well, just ask God to help you through, keep you safe, help you through the game. Bless, ask him to bless all the players and the coaches and the other team, and help you to get back home safe. That would be the little prayer we would pray.
PG: Would the coach offer--?
GW: Sometimes the coach, sometimes a player. Sometimes a player. Sometimes the manager, but we'd have that prayer before we played. But see all that's gone. And then they expect God to, [Laughter] to come down and do all--. "Help us, Lord. The schools are going astray." But what are you doing for God? Are you praying? Are you, are you asking him to protect you? They don't want you do that anymore? It's not going to get any better, sweetheart. It's going to get worse, because they've taken it out. Taken it out.
PG: Let me ask you again on the subject of, of prayer interest, did you have church basketball leagues here? Did, did you play?
GW: Not, no I did not play. The Salvation Army boys could. They had, they had (a prayer). I don't know about the YMCA. I know James played with the YMCA and the Salvation Army and the Gaston Boys Club.
PG: Right.
GW: He played with all of those. But the prayer part about it I don't know. I don't know. I'm thinking perhaps the Salvation Army Club, Boys Club would have it since that is a, a Christian organization. Well, the YMCA is too. So, but I can't, I can't say because I never did--.
PG: You didn't play. So you just played at high school? That was really--.
GW: Uh-uh. Yeah. There wasn't any YMCA when I played.
PG: Oh really?
GW: Uh-huh.
PG: There wasn't one here?
GW: That I could go to.
PG: Oh, uh-huh.
GW: That I could go to, back in the 50s, 49s and 50s. You weren't born.
PG: Right. No I wasn't. [Laughter]
GW: But there wasn't anything that I could go, that I could go to, to play ball. I had to stay in my area and which was, which was all right but it's just the opportunities just weren't there.
PG: Could the boys from your school, did they have a place to play too or they were--? OK, so it was mostly (segregated)?
GW: You see we had to, we were bused like they are now, but there wasn't any integration.
PG: Right, right.
GW: You know, that happened in 1972 here I believe.
PG: Right.
GW: '72? Yeah, that's when my oldest son graduated. And that's when the integration was, but before that, the, you were on this side and they--. You know, that's the way it was.
PG: So there was no branch of the YMCA or what ever?
GW: Uh-uh. Uh-uh. That I could go to. There probably was but wasn't anything that I could attend. The only, the only basketball place that we did have was in the Highland High School gym is where you went and played. Like they areas now that boys can go and play and girls. Now they have boys and girls, boys, Boys and Girls Club.
PG: Right, right, right.
GW: That's what the Gaston Boys and Girls Club is, and the Salvation Army too I think.
PG: Well, would you play at home? Did you have a goal at home?
GW: No goal. No goal. Just get out there and bounce the ball around. You didn't have a goal. James didn't have one either. And people said, "Well, he didn't have a goal in the back yard?" No, James went to the Boys Club, YMCA and those places. That's where--. We never had a basketball in my backyard.
PG: Is there a reason why you didn't have one?
GW: No, we just didn't--. We, I didn't think we needed it. He played at other places so why put one up? [Laughter] We don't have one here. [Laughter]
PG: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
GW: My grandson wants to play, but we don't have one. We've been saying we're going to put one down because when they come down--. They're here with us right now going to school, but they're going home because their mother, they worked at night. But we don't have one here.
PG: Did you--? Was there a place in your neighborhood that somebody that had a goal and a basketball where they played?
GW: Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Uh-uh.
PG: No, there wasn't anything like that?
GW: Uh-uh. The houses were situated where you didn't even have a driveway hardly. [Laughter]
PG: Oh really?
GW: Let alone the place to put up--. You had a back yard but it wasn't so you could put up a goal or anything. No, I didn't have it. We didn't have anything.
PG: You just played at school.
GW: Just played at school. Um-hum. Get out around on the street. We had a stre--. I lived on a dead end street, and we could play in that dead end area.
PG: Did you have a basketball? Did you have a basketball?
GW: Yeah, we had a ball. Had a ball.
PG: So you practiced dribbling one time and stopped and--?
GW: Yeah, you could do that and do that pivot and turn that's all you could do. If you bounced it, you pivoted and you, you had to pass it on. That's the way it was.
PG: Well when y'all were playing and you were doing this did you have a lot of strategy? Did you have planned out plays?
GW: Oh yes. We did a weave, almost like you see them doing now. We had the one-up play. That was me. I'd be up front, get the ball, and throw it back to one of the other, and then I'd run to the basket. We did that. We had a lot of plays. We ran a lot of plays. Um-hum. I can't remember all of them that we did, but we did.
PG: Right, right. Well the teams that you played against, did they generally have a lot of these plays too?
GW: They did. Wake, not Wake Forest--. I'm--. Not Wake Forest. [Laughter] West Charlotte and Second Ward High School, Lincoln Academy. Dun--, was it Dunmore in Kings Mountain? Several schools that we played against.
PG: Did you ever play Ridgefield at Hickory?
GW: Yes, but I don't think it was Ridgefield then. Let me see. I can't think of all--. We had a tournament in Bessemer City, and I can, I cannot not tell you all those teams we played against. But when we played in Bessemer City in that, in that area, in that, in that conference this is how we got to go to the championship.
PG: Um-hum.
GW: We, we won all--. And the trophies that we got, we couldn't bring them home. They kept them. They still--. The trophies that we got for playing basketball are in a place called the Moloch Lodge on York Street. They have pictures and a case of trophies and everything that are still there.
PG: They are here in Gastonia?
GW: Uh-hum. On North York Street.
PG: Oh, OK. Right, in the--. I was, I was at the Boys Club a little earlier to talk to George Partlow a few weeks ago.
GW: Um-hum. Um-hum. Mr. Perry, was he there?
PG: Well I, I didn't see Mr. Perry.
PG: No, I talked to Mr. Partlow.
PG: And he said, he told me about that, the thing.
GW: Uh-huh. It's all there. My husband was there for, they had a brotherhood breakfast there the other Sunday morning. He went down. He came back and told me, said, "Your pictures and all, they're still hanging." I have some pictures that I'm going to show you.
PG: Well, I would love to see some.
GW: Um-hum.
PG: Well what we can do we can, we can--. [RECORDING INTERRPUTED, THEN RESUMED]
GW: Tall and skinny.
PG: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. ( )
GW: This is our championship picture. [Laughter]
PG: Oh wow. Look at this.
GW: I was number thirty-six. [Laughter]
PG: Uh-huh. That is so wonderful. Uh-huh. Did that have a meaning? Had you picked that number out for a particular reason?
GW: No,when you got your uniform, when you ordered your uniform whatever was on it that's--. [Laughter]
PG: That's what you got, huh?
GW: That's what you got. I was thirty-six.
PG: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
GW: [Laughter]
PG: Look at that you look like you were pretty happy to win that.
GW: Yeah, I was, we were.
PG: Was it, was it easy to win or did you have a lot of hard games?
GW: No, it wasn't too hard. Well the championship game wasn't too hard, but getting there, playing the other teams. And this is where we were in, in Bessemer City. We played, and we won it in Bessemer City, and then we went on to play the championship game in girls' basketball.
PG: So was--. You just went and played one game up at, up at Central or you played--?
GW: No. We played, let's see. It was three, three games we had to play I believe it was. Three that we had to play to win to get to go play the championship. Um-hum.
PG: Well, this is great. You were the captain I see.
GW: Yeah, I was the captain. [Laughter]
PG: When you were a senior?
GW: Um-hum.
PG: Well that's good. That's good. Well let me ask you, some women that I've read about and talked to a little bit who played during this period sort of in the 40s and the 50s said that sometimes it was a little hard to be a woman and be an athlete that sometimes people thought that was odd for women to be doing that.
GW: Not, not when I played.
PG: No, you didn't have
GW: Uh-uh.
PG: anything like that?
GW: Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. No they, you know, they would cheer us on just like they would the boys. Didn't have any problem.
PG: Did people look up to you in school because you were on the basketball team?
GW: Yes, they did. Yes, they did. Not as much as they do now, but they did. Every, everyone knew me. They knew all of them but they knew, "She scored this," and, "She did that," and, "She's a good basketball player." [Laughter]
PG: Um-hum.
GW: I've had that said to me. Mr. T. Jeffers, one of the mayors, he was the principal of our school at this time, but he's passed on since. And he often tells me says, "I'll tell everyone that James got his talent from his mother. She played basketball." They talked about what a good basketball player I was. Well, I didn't think I was so good, but I guess they did.
PG: Well if you probably, if you had more opportunity
GW: Yeah.
PG: to go on to college and,
GW: Yeah.
PG: and such like that--.
GW: And played some more you would have been known wide, you know, been wider. But these were good--, these girls were good players.
PG: Um-hum.
GW: These were forwards. This one, this one. Well all of us were forwards.
PG: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
GW: We played but sometimes some of us had to play forward and guard. That's my husband's sister right there, she played.
PG: Oh, uh-huh.
GW: She's the manager.
PG: Um-hum.
GW: She teaches school. Jean Gregory. This one is deceased, and the rest of us still around. [Laughter]
PG: All around. Well, tell me, you, you talked a little bit saying that you really enjoyed it and you
GW: Um-hum.
PG: liked it, you know. What was it that you liked the best about it? I mean what was it that you really enjoyed?
GW: I guess, I guess this being able to show your talent, what you could do, and then scoring. We, each of us would say how many points we were going to score that night and maybe, or that day, and then we would try to do that if we got the ball back. [Laughter]
PG: Right.
GW: And I enjoyed the traveling, the meeting other girls, and we'd talked about, you know, basketball and what we did in basketball, our schools, because we were proud of Highland High School. Proud. And, and just little things about it, you know. Getting to go places and do. Well, girls didn't get to go many places, you know. Uh-uh. I had a strict mom. She was strict, and I didn't get to go many places. And to get to go to Durham, North Carolina, or even Bessemer City, that was a long way for us.
PG: Uh-huh.
GW: Or Charlotte? Um-hum.
PG: Even just to go to Charlotte?
GW: Yeah, because you didn't get to go. You didn't--. You know, girls now they have boyfriends that just drive us. See, they didn't have cars to take us places then.
PG: Um-hum. Right.
GW: As a matter of fact my mom--. When I played basketball I wasn't courting. My mom didn't allow me to court until I graduated from high school.
PG: Oh really?
GW: Um-hum. She did not. Now you had a friend to take you to the prom, but that's it. She didn't allow it. She says you're going to finish school. That might have been hard as children would say today because my granddaughter was telling me last night, "Nanna," she says, "I just couldn't have made it coming along when you did." I said, "Well, I'm here. Here I am." She said, "You didn't get to do things. You didn't get--. " I said, "Well, I'm here. I'm sixty-two years old. I'm still here." "I just couldn't--. You all didn't get to go anywhere. Could you talk on the telephone?" I said, "Yeah, you could talk to your friends on the telephone." But like little boys and girls talking, no you didn't do that. You didn't do that.
PG: Yeah, it was--. It was real different.
GW: Yeah, it's different.
PG: And I guess you were saying, you know, you got an opportunity to show your talent
GW: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
PG: what you could do. Did girls have very many other opportunities to show talent, to sort of shine in public in a way?
GW: Yes, we, we had some girls that were in drama. We had a teacher, Mr.--. Well, we called him Prof. Robertson. He was an English teacher, and he would always put on this big show every year. And these girls had, you know, could show their talent in acting and such. It's very good, but you couldn't go anywhere after you did it. You just finished your high school and that was it. I, I, I sang in the Glee Club, Soprano. I am a Soprano. And we'd get to go places to sing. You, I had more than one thing I could do in high school besides learning, you know, my regular lesson, classes.
PG: Right. Right.
GW: But it was just, it was enjoyable even though it was limited, it was enjoyable.
PG: Right. Right. Well what do you think having a basketball team meant to the school back, back then?
GW: I think it meant if you could win a championship, this was what all--. Everyone wanted their school to win a championship game, and they were pulling for you to do it. Because when we would go off before each game on Friday, we'd have, we'd have a big rally in the school gym, you know. And everybody come to the gym, and we'd do cheers and everything and get the team pumped up to go, because when we went to, when we went to Durham to do this we were pumped up. We were going to win this. But we'd had the rally in the gym and sing a song and everything, and "Go Worthy," "Go Thompson"-that's what I was-, "Go Davis," "Go Adams." They would just be saying you know, that, we used that word go then. You can do it, you can do it, you can do it. And this, it gets pumped up pumped up like kids do now. But it wasn't as the, the student body wasn't able to follow you.
PG: Right.
GW: Because when Carolina goes anyplace, they have the cheerleaders and everything to go. Now they did it in football more than basketball. But just think about it. I'm going to get to go cheer for my team and, and bring them on, you know. It was just exciting. They really did it. Um-hum.
PG: So do you think it was good for the school when you won the championship?
GW: It was. It was.
PG: How, how, how was it? How was it?
GW: It was a--. We got, we got in the paper. They put it in the Gaston Gazette believe it or not, [Laughter] and, you know, things of that nature hadn't been there before. So everybody got to read about that Highland Ramlettes, they--, what they did up in Durham at that game.
PG: So reading about that in the paper was real--?
GW: Yeah, and then it was all over the school the next day, you know. They were still talking about it and everything. So, well they talked about it for weeks. [Laughter]
PG: I'm sure. I'm sure.
GW: They talked about it for weeks, and it was just exciting. Um-hum.
PG: That's interesting because they, did they keep having the state tournament that they always had?
GW: Well, girls' basketball faded out in a few years in high school because they got to the place where there were things going on with girls that they didn't like with the coaches and things, so it kind of faded out. And they don't, didn't have it as much as they do now.
PG: Because they certainly, I mean in 19--, you say you won in 1949?
GW: '49.
PG: You know, I mean the, the white high schools didn't have a girls' state championship then.
GW: No, no.
PG: Which is interesting to me
GW: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
PG: that they would. You know, they had one in '50 and '51. Between '50 and '53,
GW: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
PG: they had a tournament over in Southern Pines
GW: Uh-huh.
PG: that was the state championship for,
GW: Uh-huh.
PG: for the white high schools.
GW: But it kind of, it faded out.
PG: Yeah, they--.
GW: It's not, it's not as--. Now they may play basketball now in high, in high school. I know they do
PG: Yeah.
GW: because they do. But I don't know, you know. The girls, they do go and play, but I don't know about what champ--. I don't keep up with it.
PG: Yeah. They do that now. It got back--. It was a period really in the--. They had this tournament, and then they stopped this tournament. I mean they had legislation
GW: Um-hum. Um-hum. Um-hum.
PG: [Laughter] to stop this other tournament. And a lot of schools didn't have, have it for a long time.
GW: Um-hum.
PG: It's interesting the schools in the cities didn't have it.
GW: Um-hum.
PG: Out, if you go out toward Hickory and Catawba County,
GW: Yeah.
PG: out in the rural areas,
GW: Out in the rural areas.
PG: they always, they kept having it. It stayed real strong.
GW: Yeah, it faded out because of some controversy that went on. I--, that's what I heard. I don't know. I wasn't involved, [Laughter] so I don't know.
PG: [Laughter] Really.
GW: But it kind of faded out, the girls basketball did.
PG: Would you go and go to games after you graduated? Did you go back?
GW: Several. Um-hum. I had to go to work so I didn't get to go as much as I did, wanted to but I did. My mother wanted me to go in nursing, and I could have gone to John Hopkins Hospital. My aunt was working there, and she sent tickets and everything for my sister and I to go, but we didn't want to leave home. We cried so my mother just sent it back. And she was one did not push you into anything that you did not want to do. She said, "If you don't want to do it, I'm not going to waste any money sending you." Because at that time we were poor. We didn't have money.
PG: Right.
GW: No one working in my home but my dad. My mother was sickly, and she couldn't work. She didn't work from thirty-two to fifty-three when she died. She was thirty-two years old when she got sick, and she died
PG: (Not long).
GW: in fifty-three, the day after President Kennedy was assassinated.
PG: Oh my goodness.
GW: But she didn't, she didn't try to--. She wanted us to take music because she could play. And we did that, but the lady would hit my hand with a ruler every time I missed a note. And I told her, I cried. I said, "I'm not going back." Now I have an organ and a piano in there that I can just barely pick a little [Laughter].
PG: Right. You probably wish you could ( ).
GW: Oh if I could kick my--. The opportunities that I've [Laughter] had when I was younger. So children should now, when that opportunity comes if you get something to do, you can go, you better, you better take that. It only knocks one time. The big time you better try to get it.
PG: Yeah. Yeah.
GW: I tell, I tell any child that now. When that time, if you can I said study, do all the studying you could do and read, and try to get those, get all the education you can get because you're going to need it. You're going to need it in life.
PG: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And once you get a job it will be a lot harder. You won't have the time.
GW: It's got to be, you've got to fill out an application. I've seen them. They could, couldn't even fill out applications, and it's sad.
PG: Yeah, that, that, that really is--.
GW: So I'd advise them to get all--. I don't care how much basketball, football, baseball whatever you do, it's more important to get that education.
PG: Yeah.
GW: Because once you get--. Now I have nursing that's in here that I'll never forget.
PG: Right, right.
GW: I can forget how to pivot that ball or pass it, but I won't forget that I learned. Uh-huh.
PG: Right. Right. Right.
GW: No, no get all the education you--. There are things that are available to children that weren't when I was coming. Things were available when my oldest children were coming. Is it--. I told, I told, the first job I ever had in my life, you know how much I made a week?
PG: How much?
GW: Ten dollars.
PG: Oh my goodness.
GW: All week long. "Now you made ten dollars?" and I said, "Yes, I did, and I was proud." Babysitting. [Laughter] Ten dollars. I did it, I said you, you could buy, I could buy some material and have someone to make me a dress and my sister a dress.
PG: Um-hum. Um-hum.
GW: That's what I did. Trying to help my daddy keep us in clothes.
PG: Right, right oh yeah. I know (absolutely)--.
GW: And I had graduated from high school then.
PG: Right, right, right. Well could, did very many people have time to come to the high school basketball games? Did you get a lot of people?
GW: It would be packed. The small gym was packed. It wasn't like an Ashbrook High School gym or a Hunter Huss High School gym; it was small. But it would be packed with students and some of them's parents could come. Cheer you on. But it wasn't, it wasn't a large building it was just small.
PG: Just a small one. OK.
GW: Yeah, they came.
PG: Did they ever have to shut the doors and not let anyone in?
GW: Not as I know of. Not as I know of.
PG: They did that some up at Ridgeview.
GW: Um-hum.
PG: Said that they couldn't get some people in
GW: Couldn't get them in.
PG: and they'd have to stand outside
GW: Um-hum.
PG: and people would tell them
GW: Um-hum. Um-hum.
PG: from inside what, what they would do. They had a real little,
GW: Yeah.
PG: you know, little place to play there, too.
GW: Well, there's just so much more now that they do in sports than they did back
PG: Yeah.
GW: in those days. So much more.
PG: I guess, you know, I mean they've got more equipment, more money--.
GW: Yeah. I see Grier Junior High School. They have a bus out there waiting on them to go to their track meets or whatever they go to, basketball or football, but we had to go in cars. And that you know how cramped up that would be,
PG: Yeah, with all those people. Especially being as tall as you were.
GW: to drive all the way and then have to play ball.
PG: Especially being as tall as you were.
GW: Yeah, and play ball when you got there, honey. Hum.
PG: Did ya'll have to do any fundraising in the community to do, to buy uniforms and to do things like that--?
GW: No, the school furnished everything, everything. Now classes sometime would put on popularity contests to do certain things in the class area but not, not to buy--. They bought your shoes and uniform; they bought everything. I've always wondered, wondered what happened to thirty-six.
PG: Oh. I wish--.
GW: They didn't put them, they didn't hang them like they do now, retire, you know. [Laughter] ( )
PG: Well, I sure wish that you knew too,
GW: Yeah.
PG: because we did, we'd, we'd borrow it, put it ( )--.
GW: I wish, I wish I knew what--. Ah, it's probably rotten. [Laughter] I wished I knew what happened to it, to that uniform. And you know like children have, you have one uniform you wear when you go and one you come at home?
PG: Um-hum.
GW: No. We just had one.
PG: Uh-huh. Just the one. And those were, were those just white then with green on them?
GW: They're white with green. Our colors were white, white and green. That was the school colors.
PG: Yeah, yeah those were--.
GW: That's what it is, and you just had that one.
PG: Well let me just ask you a couple of quick questions
GW: Um-hum.
PG: about, about James if that's all right.
GW: Um-hum.
PG: I--, when he was coming up did you help him play, did you--?
GW: His brothers.
PG: Uh-huh.
GW: His brothers started when he was just two or three years old, making him dribble the ball. "You can do it." Making him do things. That's the way they brought him.
PG: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
GW: They didn't bring him up a sissy, they brought him up rough because they were older.
PG: Right.
GW: My middle son was, Danny, was seven years older than James. And the other was eight years older than James, so they roughed him up, sweetheart. [Laughter]
PG: Had you taught them how to play at all or did you--?
GW: No. Now they played in high, in junior high school, but they were interested in music. So when they, they played, when they went to Ashbrook they were both in the band. When they were in North Carolina Central they were in the band. They didn't play sports that much, but they played on the varsity team at, at Highland. It was elementary, Highland Junior High, that's what it is now. They did but not in high school or college.
PG: Um-hum. Um-hum. Well did you talk much to them about your playing days would you--?
GW: Yeah, we would talk about it, and they would laugh because I--, you know, for the way they played, they could go the full court, but we couldn't do--. "And you traveled in a car, Ma? How did you do that?" [Laughter] And they would laugh about things I would tell them about basketball. The only area I helped James in, and he's told this I think several times, in his free throw shooting. He was off, but that's the only thing I tried to help him in. He had the talent himself, and he could do it on his own.
PG: Had you been a good free throw shooter?
GW: I had, and I shot the ball in between my legs.
PG: Oh, you did shot some that way. Uh-huh.
GW: This way. That's the way, but I didn't, I didn't try to teach him that way. [Laughter] It's the certain flex you do with the wrist to get it, you know, and I would tell him you're not flexing your wrist. You're just pushing the ball. You've got to flex that to make it go.
PG: And you knew that from when you would play?
GW: Yeah. Um-hum.
PG: Because you'd been taught.
GW: There was an exercise that we did to strengthen our fingers and it would hurt. You just hold both arms out and you do this a hundred times.
PG: ( )
GW: Oh mercy, but you get strength in your fingers. I do it now because of arthritis and things. I don't have arthritis in here, but I'm trying to keep them flexible anyway.
PG: Right, it sound like your coach made you work pretty hard when you were (doing).
GW: He did. He was a, he was really good. He didn't, he didn't treat you like you were a girl. [Laughter]
PG: Um-hum. Um-hum.
GW: You had to get to it. I was knocked out once
PG: Oh my.
GW: playing basketball in Belmont. We played Reed High School, and a girl ran into me and she hit me with her fist just like. Ooo.
PG: Oh my goodness.
GW: And all I can remember, I got--. I don't know how I got back over there to the bench, but there I was she knocked me out flat. [Laughter]
PG: Oh my goodness.
GW: We played in Johnson C., Johnson C. Smith gym. We played some girls from Schofield, South Carolina. They did not have a gym; they practiced outside. They were the roughest girls we ever played against. I mean rough. But now they played fast ball for I guess five minutes, and then they'd slow down. This is when they were whipping you, I mean whipping you. And they could play, but they were rough. They didn't have--. They practiced outside, so they didn't have a gym.
PG: Um-hum.
GW: And they were rough, but we played in John--.
PG: Were they rough--? Would they push and all that?
GW: Yes, yes. They beat us good. [Laughter] At Johnson C. Smith gym. We were thrown out of that tournament. They were from Schofield-I've never hear-Scofield, South Carolina.
PG: So it sounds like you all were really competitive in terms of--?
GW: We were. And there was a girl her name was Ruby Thompson. She was a la--. Was her name Ruby Thompson? Rub--? Something Ruby. They called her big Ruby. Anyway, I would always have to guard big Ruby. She was a little bit taller than I am, she must have been seven, seven feet maybe--. I mean six feet and something maybe. And I could not jump like Ruby, and she just, just ran over me like Charles, not Charles Barkley, but [Pause] what's his name? Robinson does people. [Laughter] David Robinson with the Spurs. Just run over you playing ball or, or Patrick Ewing. And my coach would be fussing at me, "Now well you've got to stay with her," and I would say, "Well I'm trying to stay with her. [Laughter] She's running away with me."
PG: And who did she play for?
GW: These girls in Schofield.
PG: Schofield.
GW: Schofield, South Carolina. They beat us good over in Johnson C. Smith gym. Honey, they did. They knocked us out of it. Yeah.
PG: You weren't expecting a team to come out from South Carolina?
GW: Uh-huh. Not that rough. But when I found out how they practiced, I said no wonder. They're on the ground. Practicing on the ground. It was tough. We had a gym.
PG: Um-hum. Um-hum. Yeah, I guess back then there were still some, some schools--.
GW: We, we got hit. We got hit in the eye. I got hit in my eye. The scar's still inside.
PG: Oh my.
GW: And you didn't wear--. You didn't wear any goggles or anything. You just, they would just send you, let you go to the doctor or something, you know. We had to have physical examinations before the team, just like they do know. Before you started you had to have physical examination. And you get permission from parents to play.
PG: Right. Right. All that.
GW: You got permissions to go everywhere you had to go. You had to get permission. I guess they do that now. I don't know.
PG: Yeah, I think in fact they still do that, they still do that. Well that's real interesting. I'm glad to hear about, about that tournament.
GW: Yeah. Um-hum.
PG: That sounds, that sounds like (something). Well, we're asking people, asking everybody this question and got some pretty interesting answers to it. If they've got one moment from their basketball career or related to basketball in anyway that they remember more than anything else. You know, just, there's one thing that you did or you saw whether it just kind of pops into your mind immediately when you think about basketball.
GW: I think it would be when we went to the championship. I always think about that because I scored the, the twenty-three points. More points than any girl on the team had ever scored. Being tall had something to do with that, I guess, but being in a championship game and scoring that many points, and they wrote an article. Mr. Coleman was, some Mr. Coleman was at Central at, at Central at the time. They wrote an article about me in the paper. And I think that would highlight everything I've played in basketball. There were good times and bad times, but this one sticks in my mind more than any of them. When we won that championship, and I was the MVP that year. And then the article written about me. And that came back to the school, and it was on the bulletin boards and everything and I felt pretty proud of myself, you know, doing that. That, that would be the most, the most thing that would really stick out in my mind.
PG: Yeah, well that's good.
GW: That's, that's the big one. But then the other one, another one would be, which is on a smaller level, is the one we won the title in Bessemer City that year. And I walked out on the floor and got the trophy, and they were whistling and hollering and everything, you know, like they do now. It just--. I don't know, it just, it just sticks with you those small things.
GW: My two brothers had played football. I was the only one that played the basketball, but she'd always encourage us to do whatever we wanted to do.
PG: Well, I'm sure she was proud.
GW: She was. She talked about it to her neighbors, you know. "My daughter so and so, my son--." My, my brother George Thompson, he lives in Charlotte now. He's retired from one of the hospitals over there. He kicked the field goal that one a game. And they called him True Toe Thompson.
PG: Uh-huh.
GW: True Toe. That's what they called him. And she was very, she was very proud of that. Proud to hear them say True Toe Thompson that was his name. We called him that for a long time.
PG: ( )
GW: And I think some of his classmates still call him that. Um-hum.
PG: Well, that, that's, that's, that's a wonderful story.
GW: Interesting. My husband played baseball, but he didn't get to play. He played in junior--, in elementary school, and they had a baseball team and with little fellows, you know,
PG: Yeah.
GW: like you do. They didn't call it T- ball at that time. It was just baseball. And he played, but he, he didn't get to play no other sports like that.
PG: Well do you think you learned a lot from playing basketball? Do you think you learned--?
GW: I did because helped to know that you have to be disciplined in things, you know. You have to pay attention. That's what I tell kids now when I talk--. It's very important to pay attention to what you're, you know, when people are talking, especially your teacher, your mothers. Pay attention to what they say. And a lot of times things don't register with you right then, but later on they will, you know. I can remember my mama said that, because Ma's been dead a long time and is certain things I say to my sister. "You know, Mom told us that." It's just, it's just there. So if you pay attention and listen, it's going to, it's going to stick. It may not come up right at the time, because another thing my mother used to tell me, I thought she was just being mean to me. But my mother was telling me these things so I would know it when I grew up, you know. This is, this is the way life's going to be when you grow up. Now they say don't whip children. You whip them because you love them. How are you going to whip me if you love me? Well I'm whipping you to let you know you're going to get hurt in life. This, this switch on your legs going to, you're going to get hurt worse than this in life.
PG: Um-hum. Right.
GW: And I'm telling you now not to do this, so in life you won't get into something else.
PG: Right.
GW: Don't whip your children. I hate that, because the Bible says "if you spare her the rod, you ruin the child."
PG: Right. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
GW: That's God word. So you, you don't have to kill them and abuse them like people do.
PG: Right.
GW: But sure you can pop their legs. I had things sitting around here when I had Sable, James' oldest baby up there in the blue.
PG: Um-hum. Um-hum.
GW: You see the three? That's the oldest one.
PG: Um-hum. Um-hum. Oh, OK.
GW: That's his oldest little girl, and I didn't move my things. I didn't move anything around, but, you know, I said, "No, don't you do that. I'll get me a little switch." And I said, "No, you don't bother. No, no." And she'd shake her head, you know. She didn't know, but she'd shake her head. She didn't bother it.
PG: Right. Right. Right, right.
GW: You can teach them. I hate to see parents, I hate to hear parents say, "I can't do anything with my child." That bugs me, that's a child, and you can't do anything with it?
PG: Yeah, they're small and ( )--. Do you remember things now that your coach told you? Do you ever think about things?
GW: Yes he, he would tell me that as tall as you are you ought to be, you ought to make all the points. You should score all the points. He would tell me that. I guess he was seeing that I was this awkward girl, this awkward person because I was awkward. I, I couldn't get my coordination right, you know. And I wasn't an aggressive player, but I could get the job done. And "You're not aggressive enough," he would always say. And I thought well now listen, I'm going to quit playing if you're going to keep talking to me. And then my other voice would say no you're not. You're going to play. So I kept going. But he would tell me, he would tell me that.
PG: Did you become less awkward by the end? Did you come to that (way)?
GW: I did. I did. My coordination got better, you know, because my--. If, if, if he's seeing this in me, I can improve. If he's telling me that I, I can improve, so I did.
PG: That must have helped how you felt about yourself.
GW: Yeah, um-hum. Instead of feeling low, you know, my self-esteem got a little higher than I guess it would have if he had not said anything to me. And if I would miss one, it would just--. Ah, I would just all that, the next day I'd be thinking about that one that I could have hit that might have won the game. And I missed quite a few. Um-hum. But I was the tallest thing on the team. He was right. I should have been scoring over everyone, but being awkward, you see, you couldn't do that.
PG: Well it sounds like ya'll did, ya'll did pretty well.
GW: [Laughter]
PG: Let me just ask you one more question
GW: Um-hum.
PG: about, about James. I'm interested in what you think the effect of having a player from this community, you know, become so well known and go off and, and achieve so much. What effect does it have on people back here in this community?
GW: Most people that I come in contact and talk with say James Worthy, Sleepy Floyd put Gastonia on the map. And I sometimes I wonder what, what, well they didn't talk about Gastonia until James Worthy and Sleepy Floyd [Laughter] started playing basketball. They didn't have commercials on TV about a certain businesses like they do since James Worthy and Sleepy Floyd have played basketball. And I think that having, having someone from this community, this little small area which they never have had before has brought a lot of attention to Gastonia. Where's this little place these people come from? And some of them, some of them say "Gastonia? Where is that?" James Worthy and Sleepy Floyd's [Laughter]home. And they, they bring that in you see. And it, "Oh, is that where it is?" "Yeah." Well then they act like they know, they really don't but. "Oh James Worthy, Sleepy Floyd's home. "Yeah." It seems like they, that Gastonia clicks when they say that about James Worthy and Sleepy Floyd.
PG: So do you think that that's, that's good for the community to be known and--?
GW: Yeah, yeah. [Pause] I really do.
PG: Do kids, little kids talk to you much about that?
GW: Oh, all the time. "Can you get me a picture?" I cannot go in and pay a bill anyplace. I don't know about Sleepy's mother, but she's not too well. But I cannot go pay a bill to any place. "Can you get--? Do you think you could get me a Lakers cap? Do you think you could get me an autograph?" And when he went to Carolina, "Do you think you could get me this and get me that?" I'll say I'll do the best I can. I says, "I don't have that myself, let--. [Laughter]
PG: Let alone--.
GW: A picture or autograph or, or a shoe or anything." I think he's donated shoes to charitable organizations. They want to auction them off.
PG: Right.
GW: And balls that he's signed and everything. But they just want anything,
PG: Um-hum.
GW: anything you can get. Believe it or not, when they come and I go to--. I feed them every time they come to Charlotte. I cook and feed the whole team. And people--. I have balls to take, I have cars to take, I have shirts to take. One fellow had a tag, and he wanted to get it autographed on that tag. It was a Carolina, UNC tag I take, I take all of that stuff over there and get it all autographed. I had to get a ball once and get all of them to sign it. That's when Magic was with them. But they came, they've been here twice. And after--. The first year that Charlotte was in the league, they had to play them twice a year but now since they're established they just play them once a year. So, "When are they coming?" "When are they?" And every, everything's calm, and I just put it over there in that corner or in some corner, and when I get ready to go I got to put it in the car and take it over there and get it all signed and get it back. To children--.
PG: It must--. I was going to say, it must take a lot of food to feed all of those (players).
GW: Oh does it ever. Does it ever. And they asked me, "How do you get it cooked? And I said, "Well you have to know when to start." See I do a lot of it and freeze it, if I'm going to make dressing I make that dressing and freeze it. If I'm going to have ham I cook it and freeze it. Thank God for the freezer. And then I, the only thing, only thing I cook that day is I fry the chicken. They love chicken, and I fry it. I make giblet gravy from (tate), and I have all that stuff and they eat it all.
PG: I'm sure. [Laughter]
GW: Macaroni and cheese. I make those and freeze them too and they take that. But I enjoy it because I love to cook.
PG: Oh, I'm sure. It's real--. Yeah.
GW: I love to cook.
PG: Yeah, yeah, yeah I'm fond of cooking.
GW: Oh I didn't offer--. Would you like a Coke or something? I didn't ask you for anything.
PG: I could use a glass of water, if that's--.
GW: Just water? OK.
PG: Yeah. That'd be fine.
GW: Please excuse me--.